New Money Printers & General Printing Changes

Intro

To start, please look at this with the nostalgia boner tucked away. While ByB has had MOSTLY the same printers for it’s entirety… I believe it is time for a change. While I know all of us have grown to love the simple and compact printers, I believe it’s time for change for multiple reasons. The majors being AFK Printer Farming, hoarding massive amounts which ruined the economy, and them only going away once destroyed/server crash. Also, PLEASE get off the anti-gmodstore high-horse. While being 100% unique in code is swell and dandy, there are actual good addons on Gmodstore that could benefit us and save Jamie A LOT of time. If you want it to be custom, just skin the UI of the junk to fit ByB and wash your hands. While I do like SOME Gmodstore addons, we should not flood the server with them. A fair balance would be needed i’d say lol. But that’s not what we are discussing today!


Pt1: New Printers Based off Elegant Printers

The Model/Animation are super cool and overall give it a “Money Printer” feeling. To me, it also is an “adequate” size for a Money Printer. A bit harder to hide, or force 20 into the same spot.


Ink System

Probably going to be controversial, but I believe we should keep this enabled to counter AFK-Printing. To me, you should not be able to just plop down 10 printers, AFK for 10 hours, and profit. Might need to change the ink level/storage to what we think is fair. **AND PLEASE we should make it so it only takes the ink if it's gravfunned in... Scriptis**

Heating/Cooling System.

While this Printer system has Heating/Cooling, I would strongly suggest disabling this. Printers should not have to be constantly babied. Having just the ink will make them not require a lot of babying, but at the same time you can't just go and AFK with them. If you really wanted some aspect of this, leave it on for the lowest-tier printers. Or just have the lowest tier degrade over time.

Another idea is to make the printer take damage (slowly) over time if it’s cramped up with other printers. 2-3 should be fine, but 4+ should make it take damage slowly as it’s struggling to get cool air. This damage should be irreversible.


General Customization

Elegant allows you to "Customize every aspect of the printer for each tier you want to create." by this, we should be able to make some decent tiers and have them look somewhat different. The only thing by default I kinda love/hate is being able to change the model colors by the Color Tool. If the screen remains the tier color, that should suffice.

We can also add ByB’s logo to it.

Side note: The printer shows the owners name on the back. Could be a fair way to show who owns it.

You can also run a console command to set a Bonus Period (Like 1-2 hours) for printers. Might be useful on random days/some weekdays to encourage people to stay on.


Donator Perks

For Donators, we can also do custom tiers, but also set a default bonus to printing on regular printers, and of course up the ink limit. The default bonus should be very small if we ever did that mess.

Pt2: General Changes

This section we will cover general changes to printers regardless of what system we use.

Anti-AFK Initiative

With anything we do, we should first and foremost kill off any methods of AFK Farming Printers. This promotes a downright toxic method of boosting your income with almost absolutely no effort. Looking to really make money on the server? Spawn all your printers in a hidden section of the map during 0/low pop hours and go to town. Boom. Economy Ruined again. While we should not have to nanny printers by constantly giving them a battery, ink, cooling, etc, we should impliment some system to require you to check in on them occasionally and make "corrections" to keep them working. See next point for another idea for this.

Re-Introduce Max Caps to the Stored Money

We should bring back sensible caps to the printers stored money. This should help hinder some AFK Printing and require you to come back to base every 10-20 min to dump it. The only issue with this is someone AFK Farming with a +Use spam script. That can easily be countered with a ban in future incidences.

Streamline the Printer Choices.

Currently, we have 8ish printer choices. To me, this is too many especially seeing how only 4-5 get used at all. Standard players know better than using Iron/Silver because they explode too much. Supporters know not to use Amethyst because of the same issues. To me, we should cut this down to 4, or 5, printer types. 2-3 for Regulars, and 2 for Donators. The Donator ones should not be the same, with one being a bit more High Risk/High Reward. By that, I mean it takes around 1.5-2 hours to give you a ROI, but after that... it's nice. We could also do that for one of the regulars, but like an hour max.

Close the gap on Donator Printers print amount vs Regular

Will discuss this in the big Economy Thread I will drop in 2021. But we should make Donator Printers give more, but not insanely. Ideas for that will be discussed another time.

Printers SHOULD expire after X hours.

One of my major gripes apart from the money issues, was how printers never expired unless the server crashed, or they were blown up. If the original owner disconnects and doesn't rejoin, it should set a self-destruct timer for two hours or less. NO MORE. Hoarding 40+ Printers in a single base between 3 people is by far the dumbest thing.

Pt3 (Rider Bill): Ammo Constructor Changes

Last thing, Ammo Constructors should be changed and made more of a group/gang item. They should cost a good chunk more, and offer gangs a decent source of ammo if needed. And change the model to something much larger like: models/Items/ammocrate_smg1.mdl

Disclaimer:

In no way is this suggestion targeting anyone specifically. Also please forgive me for any grammatical mistakes, or omissions. Feel free to add-on suggestions and your thoughts in a reply. If you don't like the idea of changing printers even by an inch; good for you! We are all entitled to our own free opinions even if they run the risk of damning another revival.

Ty. Economy Post coming in 2021.

I feel you’re going at it too harsh here. Sure, AFK farming is a problem, but you’re kicking the issue down the road with most of the solutions proposed here. If I have to buy ink or this that or the other to idle for printers, I’ll gladly just set up an autohotkey script to press buttons for me, because nobody wants to babysit their money printers at all times.

A common middle ground that I’ve seen reasonably implemented (and that I’ve discussed briefly in Discord) is some kind of fire extinguisher/halon entity. Simply make printers catch fire more often, and require (even if it’s through wiremod) a canister of extinguisher to be popped. Limit the number of canisters a player can have, allowing them to safely ignore their printers for somewhere in the order of 30 minutes on average before needing to deal with it again.

Automation should be possible and encouraged, but should be moderately (not eye-gougingly) difficult. I feel like passing expanding printer longevity to a job (read: banker) would be excellent.

I find this a kind of pointless counter-proposition.

If you was to implement something like this, but then make it possible and encourage people to automate … what benefit does it provide to tackling the issue?

Someone will just make an e2 or something for it, and then won’t be long till everyone has something similar or a copy of it.


I agree that we should make the banker job more desired, and almost have pros for becoming (similar with the other roles that focus around banking).


I think one issue is the number of printers a player can have, I saw two players yesterday each own several of each type of printer. If we decrease the limit a player can have, but also decrease the money it produces (but keep the cost of one), that will reduce people making $$$ over an afk period.

Similar to Adam’s point, allowing printers to expire after X time, could also help with the economy.


Separate to printers specifically, we might want to remove weapons from jobs? Guns on this are expensive, and I think they should be. But if I wanted to have a gun, I’d just go a job that comes with one, and rely on that as much as possible, rather than spending say $65k on a shipment of some weapon. If we make money making methods low, (without it being too much of a grind) and cost for weapons expensive, it should balance out.

1 Like

Will probably reply to this in general later, but to riches point about jobs with guns, possibly for some that spawn with smgs make it pistols so people actually buy better guns.

Also bear in mind no one is currently raiding and such leaving people to farm in peace - once police raids and other raiders ramp up printer hoarding becomes harder

I’m honestly not a massive fan of huge posts like this, takes so long to read and then all the replies end up as massive posts :sob:

On GmodStore, I don’t have a huge hate of the addons on their - I cofounded the site with Matt and wrote a bunch of the original version - there’s some really cool content on there, just need to balance it with our own and make sure it fits in with the server style. Our current scoreboard for example is massively nostalgic and not the kind of thing you’d find on GmodStore.

The models on that Elegant Printers addon are seriously cool. I really like them.

I’m not a huge fan of the ink system, but I do agree that an anti AFK mechanism is needed. I also agree that printers shouldn’t need to be babied.

ByB printers currently do have max caps, but they’re 50,000 per a printer which is a huge amount. I don’t think printers should take an hour to give you an ROI because the playerbase of DarkRP is not used to that, I think the economy should be balanced via easy money sinks instead - giving players an semi-easy way to make money but an even easier way to spend that money.

I love Richard’s idea about buffing the banker job, I’d love to see that job used more. I’m also not sure if we want jobs to spawn with weapons, I’d like to see more input on that.

I always loved the way Gang Wars RP balanced printers - You’d have to power them using your buildings power sockets, I’d love to implement power sockets in buildings. In addition to that building upgrades etc - It’d all act as a massive money sink too. This would also counter printers in “strange/hidden” parts of the map further down. Additionally it counters the ability to hoard 40+ printers in one base.

I really want the server to be fun first, but having a non-broken economy is a big part of that.

I agree, my idea is probably too harsh. A Halon/Fire Extinisher method would be ideal, but this would be a stop-gap until such a thing was implemented (given the community lives). Depending on how long it took the player to extinguish the fire, it could do perm damage to the printer. At the end of the day however, I don’t see the difference in Ink & Halon. You are occasionally coming back to add more to the halon system too.

I tend to disagree. Something like printers should never be allowed/able to be automated.

While I can agree with this, the Banker jobs main benefit is security/peace of mind when storing printers in the vault. Really shouldn’t add much more to that :stuck_out_tongue: . Trying to think how you would do this however. Maybe a slight boost to the printing? Or a better halon system if we went the scriptis route lol.

Yes, but as Jelman said, maybe start some jobs off with just a bad pistol.

Yeah, that may be a bit too extreme. Currently, it’s 15-20 (and 30 for supporter) which is fair. A High Risk High Reward tier printer should be a bit longer imo if we did that route. The issue with the last bit of logic however is introducing enough money sinks for people to WANT to toss money into them. The economy should be balanced both ways to prevent people from having millions of cash they have no desire to blow. Or because they already bought everything within a day of grinding.

So, new printers are in now, and have had a basic balance pass.

I’m sure @Adam_S is working on his spreadsheets, but one thing to highlight is the cooling upgrade is too OP to cost 5k.

@Jamie pls fix

from my farming experience, raising the cost to 10k 20k wont change much in the long run, the nerf that it needs is to actually lower the printer hp and not keep it at 100 hp permanently

So remove the infinite ink on supporter printers?